>> I'm Dr.

Benjamin F. Chavis Jr., and this is "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> So many of us are looking for the answer to disrupt our community, but it starts by disrupting ourselves and becoming who we're called to be because that allows us to walk in that boldness, to show up and do the things in our community that we're called to do.

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, we continue to look for ways to empower our customers.

We seek broad impact in our communities, and we're proud of the role we play for our customers and the US economy.

As a company, we are focused on supporting our customers and communities through housing access, small-business growth, financial health, and other community needs.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute -- our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural gas and oil industry.

Learn more -- api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American -- dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

♪♪ >> We're very honored on this special edition of "The Chavis Chronicles" to have Alencia Johnson.

Alencia, welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> I'm so honored to be here.

Thank you.

>> You have a national bestseller book, "Flip the Tables."

I'm going to get into your background, to you writing this bestselling book.

>> You know, like so many people at the beginning of the pandemic, when we are in this contentious election -- Well, we thought it was the most contentious election.

Then 2024 happened.

But I'm going back to 2020, the election, we're watching, what happened to George Floyd, the murder of George Floyd and the uprising afterwards.

And the question that I constantly was receiving -- I had just ended the my job on Senator Elizabeth Warren's primary campaign -- was, "How do I create impact and do something in the world?"

And yet I was sitting there struggling, trying to figure out what my own purpose and identity was because I have an amazing career, but I knew that God had called me to more.

Honestly, the teachings of Jesus, that red text that a lot of people don't read, is actually what shaped and informed my political and social justice work.

And I just kept sitting and meditating over my favorite story of Jesus flipping over tables in the temple.

And I said, "What got him to that point that he would flip over the tables?

And then what would get us to a point that we would flip over the proverbial tables in front of us in our community, yes, but in our own lives?"

And so that's how the book concept came together -- because so many of us are looking for the answer to disrupt our community, but it starts by disrupting ourselves and becoming who we're called to be because that allows us to walk in that boldness, to show up and do the things in our community that we're called to do.

And it also reminds us all that we each have a purpose and a role in this work.

I think that folks look at someone like you or someone like me with a platform, and they're like, "I've got to do that."

It's like, "No, you actually have to just love your neighbor and be these community interventions."

But that starts with you getting out of your own way and removing ego and understanding that people may not understand what you are doing.

But if that's what you're still called to do, you have to figure out how to do it.

So, the book goes through disruption of self, disruption of a vision 'cause I'm sure -- I know you know this.

We got to have a vision to keep going.

Even if it looks like we're losing in the immediate, we got to have a bigger vision and then disrupt our community.

>> A lot of people around the country are finding your book not only very informative, but also instructive in terms of their career development and how they see the world, how you make change.

Look, you've been involved in several national campaigns, the Elizabeth Warren campaign, the Barack Obama campaign, the Joe Biden campaign.

So you've seen things from sort of the inside of politics in terms of strategy.

Now you are looking at stuff that's outside of politics.

How do you compare the two?

Where does the greatest change come, from working inside the system or working outside the system?

>> My first taste of actual politics was working on President Obama's campaign, and I realized the power of agitating the system a little bit from the outside, campaigning, this disruptive work.

And then as I got that bug, I moved to Planned Parenthood when the goal was to advance reproductive freedom.

And it didn't matter which party, right?

It didn't matter who was in office.

We had to -- This was our goal.

And for me, I realized that there's an inside/outside strategy.

And the best thing that I can do is push and challenge the system to go a little bit further.

So, if I'm pushing the system this far and we can at least get halfway there, we've at least enacted some change.

The one thing that I realized in this point in my career which is the thread through that has allowed for me to work in entertainment spaces, corporate spaces, and so many different spaces of our society and industries -- the way that we vote and show up in our politics is just one piece of who we are.

It's an extension of our values.

And so I'm so much more focused on trying to figure out what shapes us as humans, right?

What shapes our values?

And then we are able to maybe get folks to vote the way that we want them to.

But voting is not the only strategy for political change.

It's a very important strategy.

You know, I don't want to minimize it.

But there are so many other ways in which to challenge and push the system.

But if you don't understand your values, you won't know what it is that you're fighting for and what you're willing to put on the line.

My first -- The first time I really questioned, "What am I willing to put my life on the line for?"

was when -- I started at Planned Parenthood's national office in 2013, after the Obama campaign.

And we were in Texas supporting then Senator Wendy Davis, her, you know, historic filibuster on the Texas state house floor in opposition to an anti-abortion piece of legislation.

And I'm 25 years old, I'm a girl from the South, and I'm getting on this bus tour.

And I'm, like, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed.

I'm like, "Yes, people are supporting access to reproductive freedom."

And I'm getting on this tour bus 'cause we're going throughout Texas, galvanizing support.

And the bus is wrapped in this "Stand with Texas women."

You know, you knew who we were.

These men get on the bus who had these big bags.

And I was like, "They're not -- These aren't our co-workers."

And one of my colleagues, he said, "Oh, no, that's security, armed security.

We are in dangerous territory."

>> Armed security?

>> Armed security.

>> For the avocation of productive rights for women?

>> Exactly.

And I said -- Now, you know, I was like, "Well, wait a minute.

I don't think my parents said I could go take this job for this."

But I stepped back and I had a moment.

I said, "What are you willing to put your life on the line for?

What are you willing to put your body on the line for?"

And that really reoriented my position in this work.

And the only way that you can have that conversation with yourself is for you to fully understand your values, which is why I am so focused on that work.

Will I continue to work with the Democratic Party to try to push them to be a lot better?

Sure.

But there are so many other ways that I have to do this to dismantle the system.

But that starts with us understanding our values.

>> You mentioned values and understanding values.

I want you to explain to our audience, where do values come from?

I mean, are you born with them?

Is it part of your socialization?

Is it part of your faith?

How does one find out where their values are?

And how do you get them?

>> You know, I think it starts at an early age, and I write about it a little bit in the book of how we have to get back to our childhood, when the world hasn't told us what we're supposed to be thinking about other people and how we're supposed to be shown -- how we're showing up.

And also, you know, a lot of children can be raised by broken by broken adults.

I was fortunate to be, yes, raised in the church.

My dad's a pastor.

My grandmother -- she had me at NAACP meetings.

She had me with her at the polling locations She also had me at her bake sales.

And, you know, my grandmother's name may not be in history books, but Ozella Bennett's name is in my book because she was doing so much that helped fuel the Civil Rights Movement.

There were things that I talked to her about that she was doing when she was in her 20s, and I'm grateful that I spent so much time with her because she created that environment for me to understand that, where much is given, much is required.

And all of that ties to my faith.

I am my brother and sister's keeper, right?

I am supposed to take care of those who are hungry, who are poor, who are seeking refuge.

That was second nature for me.

To the question that you're asking, though, when I had to interrogate where that came from, for me, it came from my faith.

It came from my upbringing.

It came from -- You know, again, my grandmother may not have been the wealthiest on the block, but let me tell you, she was calling around and making sure that Sister So-and-so's kids had a Christmas or had the clothes that they needed to go back to school.

And that level of responsibility to community, it was just reared in me.

In addition, too, there's a story I tell in the book about how in kindergarten I was -- [chuckles] I was trying to say something to my classmates in the cafeteria at lunch.

And they weren't listening to me, and so little Alencia climbed on the table and yelled, "I have something to say."

And I'm grateful that I had a principal, a white woman -- >> So, you've been disrupting at an early age?

>> I have.

I have.

And Mrs.

Walker, a white woman, God rest her soul -- thank God she called my mother and said, "I know Alencia's gonna get in trouble, but you have a leader here."

And had she disciplined me in a different way, that school-to-prison pipeline was this close.

And so many of our kids are set on a different trajectory at 5 years old.

So I started being inquisitive, and folks actually supported that, right?

They supported the, "Okay, she's not being mouthy, she just -- she's got something to say and has questions about how this world works."

>> You know, that could have gone a different way.

>> It could have all gone a different way.

And I think about that now, especially doing work with young girls and young boys and what's happening in our schools.

And so, you know, our values are shaped by the environments that we are brought up in.

Our values are shaped by our faith.

And, you know, I know my generation and the younger generation may not go into the church in the way that older generations do, but there is still, I believe, such space.

And actually, I think there's a -- like, people are starving for faith and spirituality.

And what does it look like?

Because that does inform who we are.

And I say it on TV.

These conservatives who like to talk about, you know, wanting to make the US a Christian nation enact policy that's everything against what Christ stood for, right?

But for me, I have to continue to move forward in what I know to be true.

And so that's how I've been shaped.

And honestly, it puts me in a position of like, "If nobody else is gonna do it, I'm gonna do it."

>> What would you recommend or how would you have people, as a strategist, as a disrupter, deal with this growing reality -- or someone said this growing contradiction -- >> Yeah.

It is a growing contradiction.

And I think it is the greatest threat to our nation because that is the breeding grounds for domestic terrorism.

That is the breeding ground for our churches and institutions to be attacked.

Look, I go to Alfred Street Baptist Church here in the DMV, and I know Pastor Wesley.

>> Famous church, famous pastor.

>> Famous church, famous pastor who is standing up and saying we can't be scared and have to really push back against them.

Honestly, seeing how the rise of Christian nationalism has made our nation more dangerous is what has pushed me to a deeper calling of understanding the theology in order to combat that because it's not just something that is an issue on the right.

In spaces in the progressive movement, democratic politics, they also don't welcome a lot of people of faith.

And yet we know for Black folks, a lot of our political power has been developed in the church.

One of the largest tools that they use is to force us into silence.

And this book talks about how storytelling, telling your story and speaking truth, it doesn't cost you any money, but it does take a lot of courage because it can put your livelihood on the line.

But I think we are in a time where so many of us who understand who Christ was as a human, right -- we are called to actually stand in that gap and speak the truth in spaces that aren't always welcome.

So, if I have to say that on CNN or MSNBC, I will.

If I have to say it in spaces where -- Again, when I was working at Planned Parenthood, I had to talk about how for years and even now, there are so many people of faith who support women's agency, and, like, it is not against religion in order to do that.

And there's this co-opted sense of who God is that is oppressing too many of the people that we are actually supposed to be in community with and liberate.

And so we are called, so many of us are called in this moment to speak truth and to challenge those who sandwich oppression with lovely scriptures and challenging folks to really think about who -- who was Christ and who would he have -- what would he be doing in this moment?

That's saying, "What would Jesus do?"

I really sit back and think about, "Hmm, I wonder where Jesus would be right now."

And I believe we are on that side with him.

He'd be flipping over tables.

This regime would probably have tried to deport him.

And when we embody that and walk boldly in our convictions, I think that is the work that will combat this Christian nationalism.

And that's spiritual work.

It's not electoral work.

>> What has been the responsiveness of people who may have put their faith up on the shelf because -- or retreated?

It's interesting.

You seem to be using faith to propel you rather than to retreat because of the dangers or because of the hardships.

You know, and I think that there has been some retreat of the church community for social change.

What's your feeling on that?

>> You know, I would agree with that.

And I remind folks who are nervous about it, particularly colleagues that I've had who have said, "You show up in this room, whether it's a campaign, whether it's -- whatever it is, and they know that you are here because of your faith.

And that empowers me to do the same thing 'cause I have felt scared and I have felt ashamed of doing that."

And that is -- Again, I think that is one of the strongest weapons that people have, is to silence people.

And I challenge us to know our history and allow our history to give us that strength.

When I woke up after the election in 2024 -- I worked on Vice President Harris' campaign, and that was really hard for me, beyond politically, but as a black woman, too, right?

I said, "Oh, we're looking for answers from people right now, but the answer is in the history books," because the racism didn't go away.

People just kind of hid in their households.

But I always say Donald Trump's election and the rise of MAGA is a direct response to a Black president who was an amazing president.

Take away, you know -- >> For eight years.

>> For eight years.

Take away his identity and his beautiful Black family -- and I don't want to -- but, like, looking at his policy, he was a great president, right, for a lot of reasons.

There are some questions some people have around some of his policies, but for the most part, the economy was doing well, things were going well.

And this is a retaliation to Black excellence.

You know, I've heard some people say white mediocrity is threatened by Black excellence.

And I would push it even further.

It's threatened by Blackness because, at the end of the day, we are able to create things out of nothing, right?

And so it was a wake-up call for folks that I think finally realized that the things that we are battling are not going to change with elections.

This is -- For me, it's soul work, and it is generational work.

And it is on us to understand that the things that I'm fighting for today -- And I shared this at -- I'm a Delta.

I shared this at Delta Days with the Collegiates.

I said, "We always talk about how our founders marched in the Women's Suffrage march of 1913.

Our founders knew that when women got the right to vote, it probably wouldn't include them because they were Black women, and yet they still marched.

And a lot of them did not live to see the Voting Rights Act in the 1960s.

But they did their part.

And I believe that deep hurt and sorrow and feeling has made us realize, "Okay, we're going to be fighting for things that we won't realize in this lifetime, but it is our responsibility to our descendants to be great ancestors and at least move the ball a bit further down the line."

>> So, as I'm listening to you, I'm reminded of why we sang "We Shall Overcome."

>> Mm.

>> Truth of the matter is, Alencia, in many places, we were not overcoming.

But we dared sing that song anyway.

We dared to stand up anyway in the face of great danger, great fear.

Even in the wake of Dr.

King's assassination, many decided, "We're not going to let his dream die."

His last book was entitled "Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community?"

As I listen to you, you would say we have to choose community.

>> We do.

>> We have to choose working together and not allow the chaos to be -- to distract us from what the real calling is.

You're in touch with a lot of Millennials and Generation Z. What's your prediction about turnout of the vote?

>> Listen, I think as long as we continue to have this conversation of why voting is so important, right -- It's the first step of political and civic engagement.

It's not the only step.

I think young women will be the difference and the catalyst.

More women of all races are voting for Democratic Party.

Obviously, I think the party has a lot more work to do for a lot of our issues because I get challenged at times when, if a majority of women are voting for this party, yet some of the party leadership, particularly white men, are saying that we should have an economic conversation that isn't intersectional about race and gender, and particularly reproductive freedom, we're losing the point.

We're losing our base because women understand how our economic opportunity is directly connected to our ability to have agency and control over our bodies, right?

It's directly connected to us being able to get an education, able to -- It wasn't that long ago when women couldn't even get a credit card, couldn't even buy a house, couldn't even, you know, divorce their husband, right?

These liberating policies that have allowed for us to be in this position.

And so I believe that women will be a key -- particularly young women will be a key voting bloc in 2026.

I always say that angry women tend to -- What's the saying?

Well-behaved women rarely make history.

I think that's true right now.

And we've seen that from the MeToo movement to what has happened when Roe was overturned and how so many women were in the forefront of this conversation and challenging those who even were on our side of saying, "Hey, you have to actually center the issues that really speak to us."

And at the same time, there's this conversation happening that's always been happening over the years of, like, "What does an intersectional feminist movement look like?"

Right?

And so, white women, how are you ensuring that the agency of Black and brown and indigenous women and queer and trans women are included in the things that we are fighting for?

And to be honest, Gen Z and Millennials give me so much hope because that is their forefront thought, right?

That is the thing that they are constantly talking about and pushing and challenging on.

And so I'm excited to see what will come out of 2026, in addition to not just young women voting -- young women running for office and winning and standing up and saying the things that we need for them to say when it comes to the policies that need to be, you know, advocated for in Capitol Hill, as well as in our state legislatures.

And so I hope this is a galvanizing -- continues to be a galvanizing period of time right now for young women.

>> Alencia, what gives you today your greatest hope?

>> You know, I sit back -- I talk about my grandmother a lot.

She clearly influenced me, and she still sits with me.

There was a conversation we had the year that the Voting Rights -- the key provision of the Voting Rights Act was gutted.

And she said to me, "I thought I fought for all of this stuff so you wouldn't have to, from voting rights, civil rights, to reproductive freedom."

I was working at Planned Parenthood at the time.

And when I tell you that that conversation about 10 years ago sits with me -- And something else my grandmother used to say all the time is, "You might slow me down, but you can't stop me."

It gives me hope that the dream realized will actually come at some point, whether in my lifetime or my children's lifetime.

>> So you're optimistic.

>> I'm very optimistic, but I have to hold on to hope because that's the only thing that's going to wake me up the next day and say, "Keep going."

What also gives me hope -- you mentioned community.

I talk about Dr.

King's beloved community in the book.

It's the community interventions that I see.

My parents -- they have a food pantry that they give out food and clothes and housing assistance in this rural community.

And when I went to a town hall -- It was back in, like, March.

I went to a town hall they were speaking at.

Elderly people of all races were there frustrated with the free lunch program being cut, frustrated with ICE and talking about how, What are we going to do when ICE comes to our community?"

That actually gives me hope.

So, it's community that gives me hope and understanding the responsibility I have to make my ancestors proud.

>> Alencia Johnson, "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you for having me.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, visit our website at TheChavisChronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, X, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, we continue to look for ways to empower our customers.

We seek broad impact in our communities, and we're proud of the role we play for our customers and the U.S.

economy.

As a company, we are focused on supporting our customers and communities through housing access, small-business growth, financial health, and other community needs.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute -- our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural gas and oil industry.

Learn more -- api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American -- dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against discrimination in all forms a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

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