AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: President Trump lashes out at Ukrainian President Zelenskyy for criticizing a U.S. proposal to recognize Russian control of Crimea and other territories as peace talks heat up.

AMNA NAWAZ: Tens of thousands of mourners visit the Vatican to see Pope Francis lying in state, as cardinals prepare to elect his successor.

GEOFF BENNETT: And Judy Woodruff reports from Springfield, Ohio, a flash point over immigration during last year's election, today a city still reckoning with that scrutiny.

ROB RUE, Mayor of Springfield, Ohio: There's always going to be folks that are going to be divisive.

My hope is that citizens would actually take a look at what really is good and work on the bad.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

It has been a pivotal day of diplomacy and declarations for the future of the war in Ukraine, now mired in its fourth year.

AMNA NAWAZ: Ukrainian and American officials convened in London in what was billed as a make-or-break meeting.

Ukraine demanded a cease-fire before it would agree to any concessions, while President Trump aimed his fire at Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Nick Schifrin has been following all of this today, and he joins us here now.

So, Nick, the U.S. has put forward a proposal.

What's in it and how have the Ukrainians responded?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Amna, as you said, U.S. and Ukrainian officials met today in a pivotal meeting in London, on the U.S. side represented by special envoy to Ukraine Keith Kellogg, after Secretary of State Marco Rubio canceled at the last minute.

A U.S. and European official tell me that Ukraine and Europe proposed a counterproposal to the U.S. plan that they say is this.

Ukraine would give up the right to reseize all occupied territory with its military.

Ukraine would not join NATO.

The U.S. would legally recognize Russian control of Crimea, but Ukraine would not have to.

The U.S. would also lift sanctions on Russia.

Europe would provide Ukraine security guarantees.

And then there are the territorial concessions, which we will go over with a map.

Russia currently occupies about 18 percent of Ukraine.

You see it there in pink.

Under the U.S. plan, the lines would essentially freeze.

So Russia would get to keep the territory it currently occupies.

You see that in red, in Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Luhansk and Donetsk, but it would have to give back some territory in blue up in Kharkiv up in the north.

It would also have to give back the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, which you see in Southern Ukraine over there, that it currently occupies.

Now, that counterproposal that I mentioned, U.S. -- I'm sorry -- Ukraine and European officials said that Ukraine would have -- there would have to be a cease-fire on the ground agreed to by Russia.

And there have -- and Ukraine would have to get long-term security guarantees before there could be any conversation about all of those other items, all of those other concessions.

It is not clear how the White House will respond to that, but Vice President J.D.

Vance said today that the U.S. did want to freeze the war on its current lines and he reiterated the U.S. could walk away.

J.D.

VANCE, Vice President of the United States: We have issued a very explicit proposal to both the Russians and the Ukrainians and it's time for them to either say yes or for the United States to walk away from this process.

The current line, somewhere close to them is where you're ultimately, I think, going to draw the new lines in the conflict.

NICK SCHIFRIN: White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said today that Trump would not walk away "by the end of the day" -- quote, unquote -- but -- quote -- "frustration is growing."

AMNA NAWAZ: And we saw that frustration from President Trump sort of boil over in a statement.

What happened there?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yes, President Trump said he noticed a statement made by Zelenskyy yesterday in which Zelenskyy ruled out Ukrainian recognition of Crimea, which Russia has occupied and annexed since 2014.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President (through translator): Ukraine does not legally recognize the occupation of Crimea.

There is nothing to talk about.

It is outside our Constitution.

This is our territory, the territory of the people of Ukraine.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Today, Trump disparaged that statement, writing on TRUTH Social: "Zelenskyy's statement is very harmful to the peace negotiations with Russia, in that Crimea was lost years ago under the auspices of President Barack Hussein Obama and is not even a point of discussion.

Nobody is asking Zelenskyy to recognize Crimea as Russian territory.

It's inflammatory statements like Zelenskyy's that makes it so difficult to settle this war."

But, Amna, as I said, the U.S. proposal would recognize Crimea as Russian territory legally.

AMNA NAWAZ: Nick, you have been talking to a lot of experts about that U.S. proposal.

What are they telling you?

What's their analysis?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Defenders of Ukraine believe that Ukraine is being unnecessarily punished.

It was Ukraine that agreed to a 30-day cease-fire unconditionally.

Russia rejected it.

It was Ukraine that agreed to a cease-fire in energy infrastructure, which Russia promptly went against by bombing energy infrastructure inside Ukraine.

And it is Russia that is making demands on the size of Ukraine's military.

Former Ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst argues that President Trump has weakened his original positions after Russian resistance.

JOHN HERBST, Former U.S.

Ambassador to Ukraine: This is not peace through strength.

This is peace through accommodating the aggressor.

What Putin has done is, he said no and the administration then coddles him.

They come back with additional concessions.

And to offer American legal recognition of Crimea would break 45 -- 85 years of sound American policy, refusing to recognize Russian conquests.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But others argue that -- sorry - - Herbst also argues that the U.S. should not close the door to Ukraine's membership into NATO.

But others argue that there is no -- there has been no consensus on Ukraine joining NATO for over a decade, and, after three years of war, one million killed and wounded, the fact is that Ukraine is simply not going to be able to reseize all of its territory, so pragmatism has to temper principle, says the Council on Foreign Relations' Charlie Kupchan.

CHARLES KUPCHAN, Former National Security Council Official: The principle is that Ukraine should restore territorial integrity and get back every inch of its country.

In reality, Ukraine can't do that because it doesn't have the military capability to do so.

And, as a consequence, a deal that basically says that Russia stays for now on those parts of Ukraine it occupies and the rest of Ukraine gets on with life as a free, secure, independent country, that's a deal that Ukraine should take.

NICK SCHIFRIN: What's next, Amna?

European, U.S. and Ukrainians said today they will have future talks.

And Steve Witkoff, the presidential envoy, goes to Moscow to meet Putin on Friday.

AMNA NAWAZ: You will be following it all.

Nick Schifrin, thank you very much.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: Thousands gathered today in St. Peter's Square as Pope Francis' remains were brought to rest for three days of viewing by the public in the 16th century Basilica.

The pontiff, who died Monday at the age of 88, will be celebrated this Saturday in an elaborate funeral mass.

GEOFF BENNETT: The mourners came from all corners of the world, some compelled by pilgrimage, others ending Roman holidays with a visit to St. Peter's to witness a snapshot in time of the 2,000-year-old Catholic Church.

Malcolm Brabant reports again for us tonight from Rome.

MALCOLM BRABANT: The bells of St. Peter's tolled mournfully as Pope Francis' coffin was carried on the latest stage of his journey to eternity, from the guesthouse where he died to a temporary resting place beneath the dome of the Basilica.

Pope Francis may have been a very modern, reforming pontiff, but the traditions that determined this procession were timeless and would have been recognizable to the faithful from centuries past.

For the time being, the cardinals in their scarlet robes cast aside the politicking and horse-trading that precede the election of Francis' successor.

In this most solemn of ceremonies, their duty was to honor the man who dedicated his life to being a mouthpiece for the poor and downtrodden.

Francis will lie in state for three days and nights until his funeral on Saturday, and until then the faithful will shuffle to his casket for their moment in time and an unforgettable capsule of personal history.

I'm just outside St. Peter's Square, in amongst the crowds, who are waiting very patiently to get a very brief glimpse of Pope Francis as he lies in his coffin inside this very grand Basilica behind me.

Many of them have been waiting for hours and will continue to do so until they can get inside just to spend a few seconds besides the coffin of Pope Francis to say farewell.

Among those seeking the shade in broiling temperatures was American mining lawyer Rob Milbourne, who says he's on a spiritual journey.

Milbourne flew to Rome specifically to pay tribute to the late pontiff.

ROB MILBOURNE, Mining Attorney: To me, I see in him an example of what it means to be a servant.

I think his legacy will continue through the millions of people who love him.

I don't think his legacy will fall, but it'll keep changing.

He changed over his life and the world will change too.

But honoring him and respecting him, I think, is a good thing.

MALCOLM BRABANT: Further back in the line was Ghanaian biochemical engineer Graham Wilberforce, who was on a pilgrimage to Rome when the pope died.

Wilberforce heralds from a Catholic family and aimed to make his moment by the coffin life-affirming.

GRAHAM WILBERFORCE, Ghanaian Pilgrim: I have my personal intentions, as well as my family's personal intentions, of which I was sent to deliver when I get here.

So, practically, it's personal, but I believe His Holiness is in safe hands, and probably he would be able to convey my message to the virgin Mary and Jesus Christ, the son.

MALCOLM BRABANT: Despite being a lapsed Catholic, Susanne Herrnleben from Germany and in Rome for an opera decided to line up to sample history in the making.

SUSANNE HERRNLEBEN, German Visitor: I hope that the liberal tendency in the church is going on and that there is no conservative backlash.

I think, at least in Europe, the church wouldn't survive if it would be more conservative as it has been in the -- before Pope Francis.

MALCOLM BRABANT: Some pilgrims fell to their knees in prayer as they drew level with the pontiff.

But others were apparently impervious to the grandeur of the cathedral and the solemnity of the occasion.

Their priority was to recall the event on their phones, a parable for the modern world.

But for most, the experience was moving.

ELENA, Italian Catholic Devotee From Rome (through translator): We wanted to come on purpose.

Look, this morning at 9:00 a.m., I was in the hospital.

I came here to visit the pope because he deserved it.

A pope like this is not easy to find.

Let's hope for the best for the future.

ROSA MORGHEN, Italian Catholic Devotee From Naples (through translator): We knew there were many people, so we approached this with calmness.

It's an opportunity to be able to pray for our pope, and it's the feeling one experiences when a family member passes away, as he is a father, a grandfather who has gone.

CHRIS QUEEN, Irish Catholic Devotee: Yes, very, very moving experience to see him so vulnerable after so long being so unwell, a real pleasure and privilege to be there.

MALCOLM BRABANT: As preparations for Saturday's funeral gather pace, the size of these crowds pose a question for the cardinals.

Will they be able to select a successor who can inspire similar or greater devotion?

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Malcolm Brabant in Rome.

GEOFF BENNETT: We start the day's other headlines with more signs the U.S. is willing to lower its tariffs on China.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent today said both countries see the current high tariffs as unsustainable, but he dismissed reports that the U.S. would bring them down unilaterally.

He suggested both sides could mutually agree to lower them.

SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. Treasury Secretary: China needs to change.

The country knows it needs to change.

Everyone knows it needs to change.

And we want to help it change, because we need rebalancing too.

GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump speaking to reporters today claimed his administration was actively talking to China and seeking what he called a fair deal.

Yesterday, he softened his tone, saying he wouldn't play hardball with Beijing.

Chinese officials said they are ready to make a deal, but wouldn't be pressured into one.

GUO JIAKUN, Spokesperson, Chinese Foreign Ministry (through translator): If the U.S. truly wants to resolve issues through dialogue and negotiation, it should stop making threats and engage with China on the basis of equality, mutual respect and mutual benefit.

Saying they want to reach an agreement with China while continuing to apply maximum pressure is not the right way to deal with China and it will not work.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Wall Street Journal reports the Trump administration is considering lowering tariffs on China from the current 145 percent to something between 50 and 65 percent.

Also on tariffs, a dozen states have sued the Trump administration, arguing that President Trump's tariff policy is both arbitrary and illegal.

The suit, filed in the U.S. Court of International Trade, argues only Congress has the authority to impose tariffs.

The states say the president cannot rely on the International Emergency Economic Powers Act because he has not demonstrated an unusual and extraordinary threat from abroad.

The lawsuit follows one filed by the state of California in U.S. District Court last week.

Governor Gavin Newsom said his state would lose billions in revenue if the tariffs were to stand.

Late this afternoon, President Trump signed an executive order that will seek changes in the accreditation process for colleges and universities.

Accreditors are approved by the federal government and set standards that schools must meet in order to access federal financial aid.

The White House claimed without evidence that woke ideology exists in accreditation and insisted they be based on merit and performance.

It's the latest effort by the White House to change higher education to align it with President Trump's agenda.

Turning now to Capitol Hill after more than four decades in Congress, Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois announced he will retire at the end of his term.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): The decision of whether to run for reelection has not been easy.

I truly love the job of being United States senator.

But in my heart, I know it's time to pass the torch.

GEOFF BENNETT: The number two Democrat in the Senate spoke of what he called a strong Democratic bench ready to serve.

His decision will set off a scramble for a seat that hasn't been open in nearly 30 years.

Durbin, who is 80, is now the fourth Democratic senator this year to announce their retirement.

Turning overseas to the Middle East, where Israeli airstrikes overnight in Northern Gaza killed at least 23 people.

The strike fell on a school acting as a shelter for the displaced.

Eyewitnesses saw torched tents and people burned alive.

The Israeli military says it targets Hamas terrorists who hide among civilians.

Gazan health authorities say over 1,600 Palestinians have been killed since Israel relaunched its campaign against Hamas last month.

Meantime, Egyptian officials say they're working on a proposal alongside Qatar to end the war.

The deal would include a five-to-seven-year truce and Hamas' release of all remaining hostages.

No comment yet from Israeli officials on that proposal.

A powerful 6.2-magnitude earthquake hit Turkey today.

Its epicenter was in the Sea of Marmara, some 25 miles Southwest of Istanbul.

The massive tremor and its aftershocks prompted widespread panic.

Buildings swayed and people poured into the streets to seek safety.

The quake didn't appear to cause any major damage, but officials in Istanbul said more than 150 people were injured jumping from balconies.

For many Turks, memories are still fresh from a 2023 quake that killed more than 50,000 people there and took another 6,000 lives in Northern Syria.

Authorities in New Jersey say a large wildfire will grow before it is contained.

The acting governor declared a state of emergency today.

The blaze has exploded to more than 19 square miles in Central New Jersey, already the second largest fire in the state in the last two decades.

What caused it is now under investigation.

Officials lifted evacuation orders today for some 5,000 people as firefighters made progress and reported residential areas were no longer under threat.

SHAWN LATOURETTE, New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection: This is still a very active fire.

As we continue to get this under full control, the expectation is that that number of acres will grow and grow in a place that is unpopulated, that is more open wilderness.

GEOFF BENNETT: No one has been injured so far in the blaze and there's been minimal property damage.

Officials say this fire season has been especially active.

And on Wall Street today, stocks continued their surge.

The Dow Jones industrial average rose nearly 420 points, while the Nasdaq rallied to a 2.5 percent gain.

The S&P 500 also finished higher, as all three indices more than made up for their steep losses on Monday.

Still to come on the "News Hour": how U.S. citizens are getting caught up in the president's immigration crackdown.

; Tesla's revenue falls sharply, renewing questions about whether CEO Elon Musk is too focused on politics and not on his companies; and a new project lets us experience some of the world's most iconic places through sound.

Last night, a federal judge in Maryland said the Trump administration is trying to obstruct the truth about the wrongful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to El Salvador.

The judge added, the administration's refusal to answer questions about its assertion that Garcia is an MS-13 gang member, nor provide details about its contract with the Salvadoran government -- quote -- "reflects a willful and bad-faith refusal to comply with discovery obligations."

AMNA NAWAZ: Addressing the case this week, President Trump repeatedly said he wants to bypass due process required by the Constitution in order to fulfill his migrant crackdown.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: We have thousands of people that are ready to go out.

And you can't have a trial for all of these people.

They emptied out insane asylums into our country.

We're getting them out.

And a judge can't say, no, you have to have a trial.

But let's - - the trial is going to take two years.

AMNA NAWAZ: Our White House correspondent, Laura Barron-Lopez, joins us now for more.

So, Laura, the judge has a very strong word there for the Trump administration, bad-faith refusal to comply.

Where do things stand now?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: So Judge Xinis has essentially given the Trump administration until this evening to -- quote -- "respond to all outstanding discovery requests" and to essentially provide the factual basis for their assertion that Garcia is an MS-13 gang member.

And, so far, there have been a number of depositions of Trump administration officials.

But we should note, Amna, that now, over the last 24 hours, there have been a number of sealed filings in the case, including one from the Trump administration seeking a seven-day stay of Judge Xinis' discovery and daily status reports.

And so we expect to hear from Judge Xinis soon, but we don't know how she's going to rule on that.

AMNA NAWAZ: So the president has said he wants to get rid of the legally required due process here for the immigrants he wants to deport.

All of that is despite a Supreme Court ruling that blocks more deportations under that Alien Enemies wartime act.

So what are lawyers telling you right now about their ability to get due process for their clients?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Multiple lawyers that I have talked to said that it's been increasingly difficult to represent their clients that are being targeted for deportation because the Trump administration is moving these migrants from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

And these lawyers have also had limited access to their clients to get interviews and information from them.

I spoke to Holly Cooper.

She's the co-director of the Immigration Law Clinic at U.C.

Davis.

And she warned that the administration's actions are weakening due process rights.

HOLLY COOPER, Co-Director, Immigration Law Clinic, U.C.

Davis: Without these structures, these pillars of due process, we are going to end up erroneously deporting a lot of individuals into very extreme conditions like what we're seeing in CECOT in El Salvador.

So this is really even like -- it wouldn't be in exaggeration to say this is a life-or-death situation to provide fair procedures for our immigrants and for people who aren't even immigrants who are citizens.

Those traditional procedural protections that have demarcated us as a democracy are completely eroding before our eyes.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Holly Cooper said that she and other immigration lawyers are also concerned about the escalation, potential escalation, of racial profiling.

And while there's no requirement for U.S. citizens to carry I.D.s, she said that she may start advising U.S. citizens to carry some form of identification.

AMNA NAWAZ: And you have been reporting on the case of one U.S. citizen, right, from Georgia who was arrested and detained.

What happened there?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: That's right.

The U.S. citizen is Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez, and he was detained by ICE for nearly 48 hours in Florida.

He was arrested during a traffic stop under a state law that makes it illegal for undocumented immigrants to cross into -- that are over the age of 18 to cross into Florida.

And, now, the key thing here was that law was suspended by a judge when Carlos Gomez was arrested.

Now, we asked the Homeland Security Department about this.

A senior DHS official said in a statement to "News Hour" that: "After a stop by a Florida highway patrol trooper, a dual citizen of Mexico and the U.S. was detained after he said that he was in the U.S. illegally.

Immediately after learning the individual was a United States citizen, he was released.'

Now, my producer Shrai Popat and I spoke to Juan and his mother, and Juan disputes Homeland Security's claim, and he said that he told Highway Patrol that he was a United States citizen and shared his story with us.

JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ-GOMEZ, Detained U.S. Citizen (through translator): As soon as I arrived at the detention center, they asked me, if I am a U.S. citizen, why do I not speak English?

They were just laughing in my face.

After that, they took photos of me and they made me sign a lot of papers, and I didn't know what I was signing.

I immediately got desperate because I didn't want to be in there and I just felt hopeless.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Juan said that he presented his Social Security card to officials, and that they dismissed it.

And that is a proper form of I.D., Amna.

And Juan and his mother described the entire experience as traumatic and Juan said that he's afraid it could happen again.

Now, Juan Lopez-Gomez's lawyer said that they are very likely to sue the state of Florida.

AMNA NAWAZ: And, as you report this out, you found this wasn't an isolated incident.

Is that right?

There's another U.S. citizen's case you're following?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: There is.

Jose Hermosillo, he's 19.

He was arrested in Tucson, Arizona, where he was detained for nearly 10 days.

An ICE agent said that Hermosillo told them that he was - - quote -- "a citizen of Mexico."

Now, a senior DHS official told us in a statement that standard procedures were followed for an individual who self-identifies as a -- quote -- "illegal alien."

They said that agents were not aware of a learning disability that Hermosillo has.

Now, we were not able to reach Hermosillo, but in interviews with other reporters, he has said that he made clear that he was a United States citizen, Amna.

And the attorney general for Arizona says that they are looking into this incident.

AMNA NAWAZ: All right, Laura Barron-Lopez, thank you for your reporting.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, a group of Democratic members of Congress traveled to Louisiana yesterday to visit foreign students Mahmoud Khalil and Rumeysa Ozturk in a pair of federal detention facilities as both face potential removal from the U.S. Video captured agents last month apprehending Ozturk, a Turkish national with a valid F-1 student visa near her home outside Boston.

Khalil is a former Columbia University graduate student who was also arrested by ICE officials.

The Trump administration maintains they're each a threat to national security for their activism against the Israeli war with Hamas in Gaza.

Massachusetts Senator Ed Markey was part of that visit and joins us now.

Thanks for being with us, sir.

Trump officials say Rumeysa Ozturk's visa was revoked because she allegedly engaged in activities supporting Hamas.

She's a Ph.D. student at a university in your state.

What's your understanding of why she was detained and targeted for deportation?

SEN. EDWARD MARKEY: Well, the only public statement which has been made is that she wrote an op-ed in the Tufts University undergraduate newspaper about her views on a resolution that had passed in the Tufts government, undergraduate government.

So that's the accusation against her, that she exercised her free speech to be able to have an opinion an action that was taken by the student government at Tufts University.

That's protected under the First Amendment of the United States, freedom of speech, freedom of the press.

And, beyond that, there have been no accusations.

There's been no evidence of a crime.

They haven't even alleged a crime, and yet they whisked her off of the streets of Somerville, Massachusetts, where Tufts University is located, moved her to Vermont and then to Atlanta, and then to a remote part of Louisiana, where Congressman Jim McGovern and Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley and I visited her yesterday.

And, thus far, they are presented, from the government's perspective, no evidence that in any way could be constituted as a crime, and that is a violation of the Fifth Amendment of the United States.

That is the protection under due process to have the evidence presented against you.

And they have not done that either.

For four weeks, she's been in prison, no charge of a crime, no evidence presented against her, and yet she sits there in prison wearing an orange jumpsuit without any accusation that has been publicly made by the Trump administration.

GEOFF BENNETT: What's your understanding of the Trump administration's motivation in moving her to that facility in Louisiana, despite a court order maintaining that she would remain in Massachusetts?

And, beyond that, under what conditions is she being held right now?

SEN. EDWARD MARKEY: Well, she was in Vermont when she was moved.

And obviously the Trump administration is forum shopping.

They're trying to find the most conservative circuit code of appeals in the United States, which is the Fifth Circuit, which is where Louisiana is located.

And so to the extent to which they have moved Rumeysa 1,500 miles away from Somerville, and then 100 miles further out from the New Orleans Airport, they seek to distance her from her family, from her friends, from her attorneys, from any support system that could be provided to her.

And it's all a part of a pattern, which, by the way, is the same thing that they did to Mahmoud Khalil, who is also in prison down in Louisiana in one of these facilities, and we visited him as well.

And I would say that she obviously had a terrifying experience.

Where six undercover law enforcement officers swept her up and into a vehicle, put handcuffs on her, and then, as she was being transported, ultimately she was in chains as she was arriving in Louisiana.

No charges made against her, despite all of that.

And despite her asthma attacks that keep recurring in prison, despite the less-than-ideal conditions in these prisons, the lack of easily accessible medical care or nutrition, or even extra blankets at night if it's too cold, she still has an indomitable spirit, an indomitable spirit.

And it was just a privilege to be able to meet with her.

GEOFF BENNETT: You know, there are those who maintain that no one is entitled to a student visa, it's a privilege granted by the U.S. government, and the federal government should reserve the right and the authority to revoke or deny that privilege as it deems necessary.

What do you say to that argument?

SEN. EDWARD MARKEY: Well, what I say is that we're the United States of America, and she's entitled to due process, and she is entitled to have the evidence presented against her, and it has not happened yet.

There's no provision that says that Marco Rubio, as the secretary of state, can just designate someone like Rumeysa and all of a sudden she can be whisked to a prison, as though we're in Russia or Belarus, with no charges made against her.

No, we're better than that.

And that's why, 250 years ago in Massachusetts, we began the American Revolution to create our Constitution which would provide protections, freedom of speech and protections under the due process Fifth Amendment clauses that have guaranteed that our nation is one of laws, and not of men.

And that man cannot be Marco Rubio or Donald Trump.

It must be the laws that are enforced.

And, right now, this Trump administration is in complete and total disregard for those laws.

And the humanitarian consequences for Rumeysa and thousands of others, the dignity which is being compromised, is absolutely unacceptable in the United States in 2025.

GEOFF BENNETT: Senator Ed Markey, thank you for your time this evening.

We appreciate it.

SEN. EDWARD MARKEY: Great to be with you.

Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: Elon Musk says that he will scale back his time with DOGE and working for President Trump starting next month, and focusing more of his time on his company, Tesla.

John Yang has the details.

JOHN YANG: Amna, Musk made that announcement yesterday as Tesla reported that its profits plunged 71 percent in the first three months of the year and revenue from car sales dropped 20 percent.

On an earnings call, Musk defended his cost-cutting work in President Trump's Department of Government Efficiency, known as DOGE.

He claimed, without evidence, that protests and several Tesla dealerships are led by laid-off government workers.

ELON MUSK, Department of Government Efficiency: Now, the protests that you will see out there, they're very organized.

They're paid for.

They're obviously not going to say, admit that the reason that they're protesting is because they're receiving fraudulent money, or that they're the recipients of wasteful largess, but they're going to come up with some other reason.

But that is the real reason for the protests.

The actual reason is that those receiving the waste and fraud wish to continue receiving it.

JOHN YANG: Musk said he would still spend one or two days a week working for the administration.

Bobby Allyn is a technology correspondent for NPR who has covered Musk for many years.

Bobby, help us put this in perspective.

Is this just one bad quarter, or are there some warning signs here?

BOBBY ALLYN, Business and Technology Reporter, NPR: I think there are some real warning signs.

One thing that's really important to underscore with Musk is, this is not just one of his companies.

This is the largest source of Elon Musk's wealth, right?

He is the richest man in the world because of just how big and just how powerful Tesla is.

So when Tesla's sales are down, when Tesla's profits are plunging, it's not just bad for the carmaker.

It's bad for Elon's position in the world.

And what I think investors are seeing in this quarter, and it's one of the worst quarters Tesla has had in the company's history, is that people around the world are souring on what he is doing in the White House.

And abroad, especially in Europe, Germans are not so happy that he has become a vocal supporter of AfD, the anti-immigrant far right populist party in that country.

And if you look at sales in Germany since Elon has supported that party, they have really cratered.

So many thought, oh, Musk has ties to the White House, he is close to President Trump, this should lift the fortunes of Tesla are now seeing there's a bit of a backlash, and it's bringing down one of his most important companies.

JOHN YANG: The company seemed to acknowledge that.

In a letter to shareholders, they said that changing political sentiment could change demand for their cars.

Is this a permanent damage, or do you think this is transitory?

BOBBY ALLYN: Elon says it's very short-term.

But if you try to look out over the next 3.5 years, if the protests against Tesla are in part fueling this, as what many analysts are saying, and if there is a growing feeling that buying a Tesla is almost a tacit endorsement of the Trump administration, this is not a bad, troubling quarter for Tesla.

This could be a look into the future.

As long as Elon Musk stays hitched politically to the Trump administration, I think a lot of consumers are going to back off and say, I want to sell my Tesla.

I don't want to buy a Tesla.

That's in the U.S.. Abroad, you're seeing China.

There's a really bad situation for Tesla, because BYD, electric carmaker in China, is selling its vehicles.

The cheapest one is like $10,000.

I mean, the cheapest Tesla is four times that.

So he's facing growing competition in China.

There's a growing political backlash in the U.S. And I don't think this is a three-month quarterly beatdown for the company.

I think this could potentially mean troubling times ahead for the company.

JOHN YANG: You know, in the earnings call, he talked about or he said that the future of the company is based on autonomous cars and humanoid robots.

To what extent is he sort of turning away from carmaking?

BOBBY ALLYN: This is classic Elon Musk.

He likes getting investors excited about the future by making big, bold promises that he can't always deliver on.

And instead of putting the focus on carmakers, he really wants to emphasize robo-taxis, right?

He really wants to emphasize these Oculus robots that he thinks will replace factory workers many years down the road.

Again, Elon Musk is a very effective salesman.

He's very skilled at getting investors excited about his big ideas.

But when I have talked to analysts about whether these promises for robo-taxis and for factory robots are realistic, most are quite skeptical.

But, again, when you hear skepticism, when Elon Musk hears skepticism, this is what emboldens him.

This is what drives him.

He pulls off feats that many say are impossible all the time.

So we don't really know what's in store over the next couple years.

But, yes, he's putting the spotlight on things that are not core to his Tesla company, right, robots.

JOHN YANG: Despite all of this, Bobby, doesn't Tesla have some real strengths?

BOBBY ALLYN: It does.

I mean, Tesla is by far the strongest and most profitable electric vehicle company in the U.S.

I mean, even with these headwinds that Tesla is facing, it is so far ahead of the pack when it comes to the number of electric vehicle sales it's recording every year and just its underlying technology.

So, yes, there are some troubles for the company.

But in terms of the electric vehicle market, Tesla is way ahead of the game.

JOHN YANG: Bobby Allyn of NPR, thank you very much.

BOBBY ALLYN: Thanks for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: Last September, the small city of Springfield, Ohio, became a flash point in the national conversation around immigration, when then-vice presidential candidate J.D.

Vance amplified a lie, that Haitian immigrants there were abducting and eating pets, which was then repeated by President Trump during the presidential debate.

Months later, Springfield is still reckoning with its turn in the spotlight.

Judy Woodruff visits the city as part of her ongoing series America at a Crossroads.

LUCKENS MERZIUS, Resident of Springfield, Ohio: Hi.

My name is Luckens Merzius.

JUDY WOODRUFF: At his local public radio station, WYSO, Luckens Merzius is getting the chance to tell his own story as a Haitian resident of Springfield, Ohio, after months of his community being in the national spotlight.

LUCKENS MERZIUS: When you share your stories, you share your experiences, you can make a difference.

People can listen and understand what you have been through.

And every single time I had a conversation with Marley, she said, "Dad, when you come to pick me up?"

JUDY WOODRUFF: His contribution to the series "Haitians in the Heartland" is a personal one about one of his two daughters who was then living in Haiti reuniting with his family in Springfield.

Haiti is currently in the grips of a worsening humanitarian crisis.

LUCKENS MERZIUS: It was great to see my daughter come to the United States.

JUDY WOODRUFF: That was pretty special.

LUCKENS MERZIUS: It's just about, like, hope, love and faith.

ANNOUNCER: The ABC News presidential debate.

JUDY WOODRUFF: It's a story in stark contrast to how his community was portrayed during the last two months of the presidential election.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in.

They're eating the cats.

JUDY WOODRUFF: When President Trump repeated false rumors on the debate stage to an audience of nearly 70 million people.

How did you even think about how to respond to that?

LUCKENS MERZIUS: Ignorance and hate doesn't care about the truth.

They don't care about what you're doing great because they find a way to talk down about you.

MAN: People talked about their dogs being stolen and eaten.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Despite no evidence to back up the allegations, the rumors took on a life of their own on social media.

ROB RUE, Mayor of Springfield, Ohio: For me, it was basically being in the middle of a hurricane that was swirling.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Rob Rue is Springfield's mayor.

ROB RUE: For I would say a good two weeks, I was in response mode.

The whole focus during that time for me was to present Springfield in the light that it wasn't being presented at a national level.

JUDY WOODRUFF: The national attention also attracted hate groups and threats of violence.

WOMAN: Authorities with the city of Springfield are responding to bomb threats.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Last fall, at least 33 bomb threats were made against city hospitals, schools, private residences and businesses, causing multiple evacuations.

Whom or what do you hold responsible for getting to that point?

ROB RUE: Those that have a national spotlight, a national microphone and choose to use words that could harm individuals, communities, those are the people that were responsible for bringing such a negative effect on our community.

JUDY WOODRUFF: President Trump has continued to paint Springfield in a negative light, calling the city destroyed in his address to Congress just last month.

ROB RUE: The president needs to know that we are not a destroyed community.

Springfield was used in a way to bring a light to a problem that I thought was a problem.

I have said before, I will say this, immigration reform needs to happen, but things were taken out of context.

People were hurt.

People were emotionally damaged.

The community was emotionally damaged, divided.

DIANA DANIELS, Resident of Springfield, Ohio: What happened to put a target on the smallish Midwest town to be the happy recipient of a horde of migrants?

We weren't being listened to.

We were force-fed.

It has enough of a large town vibe.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Diana Daniels has lived in Springfield for nearly 40 years and has been a fixture at city commission meetings, railing against the issues she says are caused by the Haitian immigrants.

DIANA DANIELS: It has completely changed this town.

I can't ride my bike anymore in town.

I don't dare.

I change how I drive, so that I know that I would not be killed by a driver who just got their driver's license.

It's harder to get into the hospital.

It's harder to get into a doctor.

If you need to get into jobs and family services, the line is out the door.

The way things are set up is, everything revolves around the Haitians.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Daniels has continued to be a presence at city commission meetings, which got especially heated during the run-up to the presidential election.

DIANA DANIELS: We have just brought two main daggone people to come in here and be able to apply for free stuff.

MAN: And I want to know, why are these people being coddled and pampered and giving this beautiful life, a life better than I live?

MARIAN STEWART, Volunteer, Springfield Neighbors United: Everybody in town said, whoa, what's going on here?

People spoke their mind.

And I think a lot of people, the predominant voice, if you will, was one of, we don't like our neighbors.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Marian Stewart is a retired minister who lives in a neighboring city.

She's a volunteer with a faith-based effort called Springfield Neighbors United.

Its goal is to support the region's immigrant community and encourage new voices to speak up.

WOMAN: I would like to see that the same kinds of opportunities given to my family are offered to others that come here.

Sometimes, the voices that come from the heart of caring and seeing our neighbors as our neighbors, that voice isn't necessarily the loudest.

MAN: I am so thankful for this room here, for the diversity in this room, for the diversity of this community.

MARIAN STEWART: We put our thinking caps on and came up with, we should go back to a basic core message that resonates with everyone.

Love your neighbor.

The commandment is love your neighbor as yourself.

JUDY WOODRUFF: A message now seen around town on billboards, T-shirts and banners outside city hall.

And have you seen examples of shifting, people who were originally skeptical or outright critical of these Haitian immigrants who are now coming around?

MARIAN STEWART: I see two things happening.

One is a hardening of opinion, because that's kind of -- we're bifurcated as a nation right now and that shows up locally as well.

But there's also -- there are people who understand, wait a minute, there's a fabric of Springfield now.

Springfield has a very diverse population.

Can we celebrate that?

DIANA DANIELS: Springfield United -- Neighbors United, that's your country club crowd.

Those are the people that don't have to deal with somebody from another culture on a daily basis.

Don't tell me that I have to be their neighbor, because that's what these folks are doing.

ROB RUE: There's always going to be folks that are going to be divisive.

My hope is that citizens would actually take a look at what really is good and work on the bad.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you think it would take to bring people together?

ROB RUE: People having conversations with individuals.

I mean, everybody's responsible for their own heart.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Diana Daniels says she has had those conversations, including about the very difficult journey and sacrifices many made to get here, that softened her thinking about Haitians as individuals.

DIANA DANIELS: I know a lot of Haitians.

I have several that live next to the store where I work.

I have had plenty of conversations, conversations that I wish I'd never had, because they're things I didn't want to know, but know now that has changed my perspective, pivoting away from being angry about an illegal being here to realizing that there were two sets of victims.

They are the victims just as well as we are.

JUDY WOODRUFF: In February, the temporary protected status that allows many of Springfield's Haitian immigrants to be in the U.S. legally was cut short by the Trump administration.

If the order stays in place, come August, many of the 10,000 to 15,000 Haitian residents of the city face deportation.

ROB RUE: We need some, well, commonsense thinking and policy for sure, because there are manufacturers that are going to not have second and third shift employees if, let's say, we have the largest mass deportation of individuals that are just here working hard and paying taxes.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Among those impacted will be Luckens Merzius and his family.

Do you have a plan for what you will do if your status ends?

LUCKENS MERZIUS: If I have to go back to my country, I go back to my country.

For myself, every day is a new chance and a new challenge.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Challenges ahead for him and the city he calls home.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Judy Woodruff in Springfield, Ohio.

GEOFF BENNETT: If you think of the Sistine Chapel in Rome, you might conjure an image of Michelangelo's famous ceiling, but what does that famous place or any place, for that matter, sound like?

AMNA NAWAZ: The new project timed to World Heritage Day asks us to experience the world in a different way, through its sounds.

Senior arts correspondent Jeffrey Brown reports for our arts and culture series, Canvas.

JEFFREY BROWN: The call of ravens in the Tower of London, part of the legend of an historic place.

He's playing music at Angkor Wat in Cambodia.

They are two among 7,000 recordings from 130 countries and territories around the world, now part of a sound map.

The project called Cities and Memory was created by sound artist Stuart Fowkes.

STUART FOWKES, Creator, Cities and Memory: It's about trying to create in some ways a new way of listening to the world, because I'm hoping that when people come to the sound map and listen to some of the sounds on Cities and Memory then maybe the next day when they're heading off into the metro or for a walk in the woods, maybe they take their headphones off and they just listen to that world, the world around them a little bit more closely than they might have done the day before.

JEFFREY BROWN: Fowkes based in Oxford, England, collects his own audio recordings in the field and solicits sounds recorded by people all over the world.

This is a part-time labor of love for him.

His day job is head of communications with a human rights group.

When we listen to the world, as you're trying to get us to do, in what way is that different from seeing the world?

STUART FOWKES: I think the thing about sound is, it is enormously transformative.

It places you into a moment and into an experience in a way that almost no other sense does.

It places you into the experience of being in that place in a way that looking at a photograph or sometimes even looking at a video just won't allow you to do.

So sound is incredibly close to us as a sense.

We can all hear before we're born.

And sound is something that really sits very close to our everyday lives.

JEFFREY BROWN: His latest project is titled Sonic Heritage, sounds collected from 270 UNESCO sites in 68 countries, as well as from cultural practices and natural wonders around the world, gray whales recorded off Mexico's Pacific Coast whale sanctuary of El Vizcaino.

From Southern Spain the song, guitar and dance of flamenco.

A reverberation of sound heard inside the Taj Mahal.

STUART FOWKES: To me, World Heritage Sites have always been fascinating because we always conceive of them as visual postcards.

If I talk to you about the Colosseum or about Machu Picchu, you can instantly conjure up an image of what that looks like in less than a second in your mind's eye.

But if I ask you what that sounds like, that's another question.

Sound is such an immersive sense that you're kind of missing out on half the picture by just regarding these sites as postcards.

And you're missing out on half the experience of being there.

And I think that's what sound brings to the picture.

JEFFREY BROWN: There's also the impact of people, us, especially through the growing problem of overtourism.

At the Sistine Chapel in Rome, a murmur building to the clatter of hundreds of tourists, then the sharp pry of a guard.

STUART FOWKES: There is a real surprise in how some of these sites actually sound.

Some of that is related to the natural acoustics of the space and some of it is related to the sheer amount of people that are being crammed into that space.

And I think this project doesn't just aim to highlight the beauty of some of these sounds, for example the natural soundscapes or the sounds of amazing bells or prayers.

It also seeks to highlight some of the ways in which the presence of tourists affects those spaces through sound.

JEFFREY BROWN: In every case, the field recordings are also given to artists and musicians around the world to remix or, in Fowkes' word, reimagine something new, first the recording of craftspeople in Ghana weaving traditional kente cloth, next the reimagining of that same recording.

STUART FOWKES: The composition which has been made by an artist called Formolo is all about the idea of time and the idea that this is a time-consuming, manual labor kind of practice.

So he's taken elements of the original field recording.

He's stretched different parts out of different kind of time spans and used different lengths of time within the composition to really speak to this idea that this is a time-consuming process.

JEFFREY BROWN: Is there an advocacy element to this work to wake us up in some way?

STUART FOWKES: Yes, absolutely.

With Cities and Memory, a lot of the projects that we run are looking at a particular subject using sound as the lens to do that.

So, for example, we overrun projects on the sound of protest and social activism.

There have been -- last year, we ran a project called Migration Sounds, which is on the sound of human migration, so reframing the idea of migration through sound.

We're also trying to raise kind of awareness that we need to listen.

JEFFREY BROWN: You can listen to more of the sounds from World Heritage Sites, including this of a chorus of birds at dusk in Mount Kenya National Park, by visiting citiesandmemory.com/heritage.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Jeffrey Brown.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "News Hour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News Hour," thanks for spending part of your evening with us.