AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: A judge# throws out.. former FBI Director James Comey and New# York Attorney General Letitia James.

AMNA NAWAZ: Ukrainian and European# leaders work to revise a 28-point## peace plan to end the war with Russia, even as# the origins of the plan come under question.

GEOFF BENNETT: And an in-depth look# at an immigration enforcement tactic,## arresting migrants at their# mandatory court check-ins.

JOSH GOODMAN, Associated Press:# They didn't have a criminal record.## They were making an asylum claim# and going through all the stages## that are required and were completely# blindsided by what happened to them.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

A federal judge has dismissed# the indictments against former## FBI Director James Comey and New York# State Attorney General Letitia James.

AMNA NAWAZ: In twin rulings today, Judge Cameron# McGowan Currie found the appointment of Lindsey## Halligan as interim U.S.

attorney was invalid# and unlawful.

Halligan had been handpicked by## President Donald Trump to bring criminal charges# against his political foes when a predecessor## refused.

She was then swiftly appointed as interim# U.S.

attorney by Attorney General Pam Bondi.

Comey reacted to the news today.

JAMES COMEY, Former FBI Director: I'm grateful# that the court ended the case against me,## which was a prosecution based on malevolence# and incompetence and a reflection of what## the Department of Justice has become under# Donald Trump, which is heartbreaking.

But I was also inspired by the example# of the career people who refused to## be part of this travesty.

It cost some# of them their jobs, which is painful,## but it preserved their integrity, which is# beyond price.

And I know they will serve again.

GEOFF BENNETT: And our White# House correspondent, Liz Landers,## asked Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt# about this today.

Here is her response.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, White House Press Secretary:# I know there was a judge who is clearly trying## to shield Letitia James and James Comey from# receiving accountability.

And that's why they## took this unprecedented action to throw away# the indictments against these two individuals.

But the Department of Justice will# be appealing very soon.

And it is## our position that Lindsey Halligan is# extremely qualified for this position,## but, more importantly, was# legally appointed to it.

AMNA NAWAZ: NPR's national justice correspondent,## Carrie Johnson, is covering# the latest and joins me now.

So, Carrie, let's start with Jim Comey's# case.

He was charged with lying to Congress,## obstructing a congressional proceeding.# The judge in his dismissal wrote today:## "All actions flowing from Ms.

Halligan's defective# appointment, including securing and signing Mr.## Comey's indictment, were unlawful exercises# of executive power and are hereby set aside."

So, Carrie, to be clear, this wasn't about the## charges themselves.

This was# about Halligan's appointment.

CARRIE JOHNSON, Justice Correspondent,# NPR: That's right.

This was about the## way in which the Trump administration# went about installing Li.. who has no prosecutorial# experience, into this job.

The Constitution and federal law gives presidents# a lot of power to pick U.S.

attorneys and gives## the Senate the power to advise the president# and eventually confirm.

But in cases where## that isn't possible, the president can# install temporary people for 120 days.

Those appointments expire after that time, and# there's a complex thicket of rules and laws## about how to proceed thereafter.

In essence,# Judge Currie in this decision said the Trump## administration did this the wrong way and, as a# result, the things that Lindsey Halligan did in## the job, things like indicting Jim Comey,# have to go away, at least temporarily.

AMNA NAWAZ: And what about when it comes to# the charges against Letitia James?

We know## Halligan also secured a federal grand jury# indictment on mortgage fraud charges there.

And Letitia James actually posted a response# today online, saying: "I remain fearless in the## face of these baseless charges as I continue# fighting for New Yorkers every single day."

What else should we understand about that case?

CARRIE JOHNSON: Yes, the Tish James case# was also thrown out by the judge today## using the same reasoning that Lindsey# Halligan's appointment was defective.

And that being said, there's a twist# with the James case that doesn't## apply to the Comey case, and that's that# the statute of limitations as to James## Comey in his testimony to Congress in 2020# was really about to expire right around the## time he was indicted.

So now there's an open# question as to whether Halligan will be able## to or the Justice Department will be# able to reindict him in a valid way.

With James, the statute of limitations has# not yet expired, so there is a path for the## Justice Department a little more easily# at least to try to renew charges against## her.

Her attorney said today they're going# to fight those charges if they come again.

AMNA NAWAZ: And, Carrie, just for# context to remind people here,## we know the Comey indictment came down# about five days after President Trump## had posted online that Comey, James and# California Democratic Senator Adam Schiff## were all -- quote -- "guilty as hell.

"# James was then indicted a few weeks later.

Remind us why President Trump has been# pushing so hard for these indictments.

CARRIE JOHNSON: Well, all three of# these people -- and Adam Schiff has## not yet been charged with any crime.# He denies any kind of wrongdoing.

But Comey and James had both pleaded not guilty# before their indictments were thrown out today.## And they were both targeted at least in part,# they say, because they had investigated Donald## Trump in the past, Comey as former FBI director# Trump blames for the Russia investigation.

And Tish James had proceeded with a civil fraud# suit against Donald Trump and his company,## winning a judgment against them.

The# monetary penalty has been thrown out,## but that case stands.

Trump is still appealing it.

AMNA NAWAZ: Thirty seconds or so left here,# Carrie.

What do we expect to happen next?

CARRIE JOHNSON: Yes, it's quite possible.

Lindsay Halligan has, according to the attorney# general,.. Justice Department, something called special# attorney.

And she may try to go ahead and get new## grand juries to bring new criminal charges against# Tish James and possibly Jim Comey moving forward.

Important to note, Amna, that both# of these people say they were the## victim of vindictive or selective# prosecution, and so they have other## bases to try to get those possible new# charges thrown out down the road too.

AMNA NAWAZ: All right, that's NPR's Carrie# Johnson joining us tonight with the very latest.

Carrie, thank you.

CARRIE JOHNSON: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Today, U.S.

and Ukrainian# officials worked to bridge gaps in a U.S.## document designed to end the near-four-year war.# Both sides say the U.S.

has agreed to edit what## was a 28-point proposal that sparked# bipartisan and international concern,## concern that the U.S.

was imposing demands sought# by Russia and impossible for Ukraine to accept.

Nick Schifrin has been reporting every development## through the weekend and is# back with us this evening.

So, Nick, how much progress has# been made today on this proposal?

NICK SCHIFRIN: European officials tell me, Geoff,## that the proposal is now down to# 19 points, instead of 28 points,## and there has been progress between the U.S.# and Ukraine, as you said, in narrowing the gaps.

The U.S.

says there are two major sticking points.# Remember, the original document required Ukraine## to cap the size of its military, give up its# NATO ambitions, and surrender territory in## the Donetsk that it still holds, despite# 10 years of Russia trying to capture it.

But in meetings today, as well as yesterday in# Geneva led by Secretary of State Marco Rubio and## the Ukrainian presidential chief of staff Andriy# Yermak, the U.S.

heard out the Ukrainian side.## And, today, Karoline Leavitt, the White House# spokesperson, said the U.S.

was optimistic.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, White House Press Secretary:# The vast majority of these points have been agreed## upon.

The Ukrainians have worked on language# with us together, and you heard that from their## delegation directly yesterday.

So we feel as# though we're in a very good place.

Of course,## we have to make sure that all of these# points are agreed too, and then, of course,## we're going to have to make sure the other party# in this war, the Russians, agree to them as well.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Levitt specifically said there were## two major points of disagreements.# We don't know what they are, Geoff.

But European officials tell me that the single# most difficult perhaps point of disagreement,## that is Ukraine giving up that territory,## it's been decided that only Trump and Zelenskyy# personally will have to decide that issue.

Here's Zelenskyy tonight.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian# President (through translator):## There are fewer points, no longer 28, and# many.. into account in this framework.

There is still# work for all of us to do together.

It is very## challenging to finalize the document,# and we must do everything with dignity.

We appreciate that most of# the world is ready to help us,## and that the American side is# approaching this constructively.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Constructively also means,## Geoff, that the Thanksgiving deadline that# President Trum.. Karoline Leavitt said today that the deadline# was just -- quote -- "as soon as possible."

And we also know that some of the other larger# issues that have to do with NATO and Ukraine,## language about whether Ukraine can ever join# NATO, language about how Europe will treat## frozen assets, those will be treated separately in# negotiations within the U.S.

and Western Europe.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, Nick, it sounds like we're# in a very different place than late last week,## or even this past weekend, when you attended# the Halifax International Security Forum,## when members of the congressional delegation,# based on your reporting -- you were first to## report this -- they were changing the narrative# around this document fairly dramatically.

NICK SCHIFRIN: We certainly are in different# place.

Not only the text is very different,## as we have discussed, but this weekend at Halifax,## a congressional bipartisan group led by# New Hampshire Democrat Jeanne Shaheen,## as well as South Dakota Republican Mike Rounds,# Maine independent Angus King, announced that Rubio## had told them that this 28-point document# wasn't American, but was in fact Russian.

Take a listen first to Rounds and then King.

SEN.

MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): What I can share with you# is what we have received today from the secretary,## and what he told us was that this was not the# American proposal.

This was a proposal which## was received by someone who has identified# and they believe to be representing Russia.

SEN.

ANGUS KING (I-ME): The leaked 28-point# plan, which, according to Secretary Rubio,## is not the administration's position, it is# essentially the wish list of the Russians.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Rubio's spokesperson went on# to call that -- quote -- "a blatant lie."

After that, both senators released statements not# disavowing what they said, but not repeating it## either.

Look, the bottom line is, Rubio insists# the 28-point plan was American.

And, frankly,## we're beyond that at this point, Geoff.# This new 19-point plan is very different.

And, of course, all of this is a negotiation with## Ukraine way before we get# to Moscow.

And, of course,## any document that's more acceptable to Ukraine# becomes more difficult for Moscow to accept.

GEOFF BENNETT: Nick Schifrin, terrific# reporting, as always.

We appreciate it.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Turning to the day's other headlines: The#Pentagon says it's investigating Arizona## Senator Mark Kelly over a video in which# he and a number of other U.S.

lawmakers## urged U.S.

troops to refuse# to follow illegal orders.

Defense officials say Kelly's comments may# have interfered with the loyalty, morale,## or good order and discipline of the armed# forces.

Kelly retired at the rank of captain.## He would have to be recalled to active duty by the# defense secretary to face any disciplinary action.

In a statement, Kelly said: "I have given# too much to this country to be silenced## by bullies who care more about their own# power than protecting the Constitution."

The Trump administration formally designated# Venezuela's Cartel de los Soles as a foreign## terror organization today.

The move is part of a## sweeping new pressure campaign against# President Nicolas Maduro's government,## as President Trump openly weighs whether the U.S.# should take military action against Venezuela.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio has accused the# group of being responsible for terrorist violence.## But the Maduro government denies the cartel even# exists.

And regional experts say it's less a## single organization than a nickname.

They describe# it as an umbrella term for high-ranking Venezuelan## military and political figures accused of# profiting from the international narcotics trade.

Turning now to the Middle East, the Gaza# Humanitarian Foundation says it's permanently## ending its operations in the territory.

In# a statement, the U.S.- and Israeli-backed## group claims it was the only aid operation that# reliably and safely provided free meals in Gaza.

But its operations were shrouded in secrecy and# its sites were marred by violence.

Hundreds of## Palestinians were reportedly killed# by Israeli troops as they sought aid,## though Israel maintains it only fired# warning shots to control the crowds.

It comes as hospital officials in Gaza say# at least 24 people were killed and Israeli## strikes this past weekend.

Israel says it# was responding to gunfire on its troops.## Authorities in Gaza told the "News Hour" that# the strike targeted displaced Palestinians.

ABDULLAH AL-MAJDALAWI, Public Relations Director,# Gaza Civil Defense (through translator):## It is important to note that this# all happens during a period that## should have been a cease-fire.

But this# violation was very clear today.

Some## of those targeted were in tents.

Now# their bodies are completely charged.

GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, in Lebanon, thousands# attended the funeral today for Hezbollah's top## military commander who was killed in an# Israeli strike this weekend in Beirut.## Israel has been stepping up its attacks# on Lebanon in recent weeks as it tries## to push the country to move faster# in disarming the militant group.

The EPA is starting to allow the use# of pesticides containing PFAS on food.## It's part of an effort to roll back the# regulation of what are called forever## chemicals because they don't break down# easily in the environment.

Last week,## the agency approved the use of two# new pesticides that qualify as PFAS.

It means that farmers could spread# them on crops like romaine, lettuce,## broccoli and potatoes.

The Washington# Post is reporting that agency plans to## approve four more pesticides.

Not much# is known about their long-term impact,## but PFAS have been linked to certain cancers,# birth defects and other health problems.

In a statement to the "News Hour"# today, the EPA said it will provide## transparent science-based information# on how the chemicals are evaluated.

On Wall Street today, stocks enjoyed# solid gains to start the Thanksgiving## holiday week.

The Dow Jones industrial# average added more than 200 points.

The## Nasdaq jumped nearly 600 points.

The S&P 500# posted one of its best days since the summer.

And a beloved star of Indian# cinema, actor Dharmendra, has died.## He rose to fame in the 1970s with hits# like "Sholay," Bollywood's take on a## spaghetti Western.

At the time, the film# was the highest grossing Bollywood movie## ever.

Dharmendra was known as part# action hero, part romantic lead.

In a career spanning over six decades,# he appeared in over 300 movies and is## widely considered one of the greatest# Indian actors of all time.

Dharmendra## had been in and out of the hospital# in recent weeks.

He was 89 years old.

And Viola Fletcher, the oldest living survivor of# the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre, has died.

Fletcher## was just 7 years old when a white mob destroyed# the Greenwood district of Tulsa, once known as## Black Wall Street, killing hundreds, burning# businesses, schools and churches, and leaving## as many as 10,000 people homeless.

Fletcher# carried those memories for more than a century.

In her later years, she became# a national witness to history,## speaking with students and journalists# and testifying before Congress.

VIOLA FLETCHER, Tulsa Race Massacre Survivor: I# will never forget the violence of the white mob## when we left our home.

I still see Black men# seeing -- being shot.

I hear the screams.

I## have lived through the massacre every day.

Our# country may forget this history, but I cannot.

GEOFF BENNETT: Fletcher was one of two# survivors who sued the state of Oklahoma## seeking damages from the city.

Last year, the# state's Supreme Court rejected their case,## dealing a serious setback to a# decades-long fight for reparations.

Fletcher's grandson, in confirming her passing,## said: "She had a beautiful smile on her# face.

She loved life.

She loved people."

Viola Fletcher was 111 years old.

Still to come on the "News# Hour": we remember Jimmy Cliff,## the reggae singer who brought the# music genre to audiences worldwide;## Tamara Keith and Amy Walter break# down the latest political headlines;## how life is changing for trans Americans under# the Trump administration; and a documentary## explores the $3 billion industry that's been# created to protect against school shootings.

AMNA NAWAZ: A sweeping new investigation# by the Associated Press is raising serious## questions about what's happening# inside America's immigration courts.

White House correspondent Liz Landers# has more on how the administration has## circumvented the asylum process.

LIZ LANDERS: Every day, all across## the country, asylum cases are being tossed out,## and asylum seekers exit the courtroom into the# waiting arms and cuffs of immigration officers,## that according to a new report from the# Associated Press headlined "Migrants## thought they were in a court for a routine# hearing.

Instead, it was a deportation trap."

One of its authors, Josh Goodman, joins us now.

Josh, thank you for joining the "News Hour."

JOSH GOODMAN, Associated Press: Thank you.

LIZ LANDERS: In reporting th.. describe the scene as you watch migrants walk# into court and then walk out into a legal snare?

JOSH GOODMAN: Yes, we witnessed multiple# arrests over several months.

This was a## routine practice by which government attorneys# would go before a judge, dismiss a case,## which would typically be a good outcome for# someone trying to stay in the United States.

And as soon as they would leave the courtroom,# they would be arrested by ICE agents or federal## agents, frequently with masks.

Nationwide, it's# estimated that there were over 2,000 arrests## in this manner.

Some of the courts were quite# chaotic, arresting people in hallways.

People## were being trapped in elevators.

Journalists# were being rough-handled, scenes of fathers## being torn from their children, women begging# federal agents to let their husbands go.

These are people who wanted to follow the# rules.

They didn't have a criminal record.## They were making an asylum claim# and going through all the stages## that are required and were completely# blindsided by what happened to them.

LIZ LANDERS: What has changed in these immigration# courts under this new Trump administration?

JOSH GOODMAN: So these immigration courts# were kind of structurally flawed from the## very beginning.

They are not part of the# independent judiciary in the way that tax## court or federal court or any multiple# courts around the United States are.

They are part of the executive branch.

They# actually are part of the Justice Department.## They had a degree of professionalism over time# that was built up.

And these judges were allowed## to really rule like any other court.

But they were# always very vulnerable to some sort of takeover.

What we have seen now under the second# Trump administration, they are effectively## exploiting those vulnerabilities, issuing new# orders about what judges can and cannot rule## on.

And they're really narrowing the scope# that these judges have to decide the cases.

LIZ LANDERS: How do the attorneys and judges# within the immigration court system feel about## the role that they're playing under# this new Trump administration tactic?

JOSH GOODMAN: What I found is that overall these# are people who are very patriotic.

They signed up## to work in the immigration system because# they wanted to protect America's borders,## root out the true people who need# asylum from some of the people who## are claiming it for nonlegal reasons# or economic refugees, for example.

And they did not sign up for this at# all.

One of the judges I talked to said,## this is really like deciding death penalty cases# in a traffic court environment, because they have## so few tools to actually mete out justice that --# and they have such a huge docket -- that they are## rushing through these cases without giving# them the due consideration that they need.

And I noticed in some of the text# messages between the federal agents## and the attorneys a great deal of empathy# and people kind of saying to themselves,## this is cruel and we don't# really want to be a part of this.

LIZ LANDERS: I was struck by that in# your reporting, that these attorneys## who are arguing in front of these# judges are in direct contact, it seems,## with the ICE agents who are waiting outside.

JOSH GOODMAN: This process starts about two weeks# in advance.

Every attorney is assigned a number of## people, like maybe 40 cases that day.

They have# to come up with a list for the client -- the## client here is ICE -- of people who they would --# quote, unquote -- call "amenable" to detention.

And then, on the day of the hearings, the# attorney and the ICE officer in the hallway are## coordinating almost in real time so that they# can identify what the individual looks like,## what kind of shirt, black shirt, a# white shirt, whatever they're wearing,## as well as if indeed the judge dismissed# the case, because that was the hook.

If the judge didn't dismiss the case,# they couldn't arrest these individuals.## If they're trying to reach a quota every day,# it's a lot easier to pick up people at court.

LIZ LANDERS: One of the stated reasons that# the Trump administration has adopted this## new policy is to work through the# asylum system's yearslong backlog.## Is it affecting the backlog and# is it affecting other systems?

JOSH GOODMAN: That's a great question.

The# backlog is a huge challenge.

It has been## for many, many years.

It keeps growing.

The# numbers themselves are not 100 percent clear.

The government has said that they have# managed to reduce the backlog from about## 4.2 million to 3.8 million cases, which is still# mind-boggling for only 600 judges nationwide.

But## they're also benefiting from the fact that# the border itself is sealed.

In other words,## there's not a lot of new people# coming in and clogging up the system.

But every time that there are arrests in the# streets, any time there are major roundups,## those people also get sort of# thrown back into the system,## and they can actually increase the numbers.# So, it's not entirely clear, but I think,## at a very minimum, what we can say is that the# backlog is not growing as fast as it once was.

LIZ LANDERS: So you find in this reporting that# a number of these judges, these immigration court## judges have been laid off.

You guys profile in# your story a judge in Ohio who had been fired.

Why are immigration judges getting fired right now# if there is such a backlog to process these cases?

JOSH GOODMAN: Yes, I mean, this is# a great conundrum.

There's about 90## judges that have been fired since February.# And the government, Trump administration,## very clearly says that they are not targeting# anyone from a viewpoint perspective.

But the data speaks for itself.# These judges were more favorable to## migrants than the national average.

LIZ LANDERS: Josh Goodman, thank# you so much for joining us.

JOSH GOODMAN: Thank you for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: A former key Trump ally# plans her departure from Congress,## DOGE quietly dissolves, and Washington grapples# with rising health care costs yet again.

To discuss that and more, we turn now# to our Politics Monday duo.

That is## Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report# With Amy Walter and Tamara Keith of NPR.

It's always great to see you both.

TAMARA KEITH, National Public# Radio:.. GEOFF BENNETT: S.. with spiking Obamacare premiums, but# that announcement, our White House## and congressional teams are told, was# delayed after congressional Republicans## pushed back against the president's apparent# sudden embrace of these expiring subsidies.

Amy, what does this delay tell us about the# internal dynamics of the Republican Party,## especially between the White House and# Republican congressional leadership?

AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: Right.

So the issue of .. with and not really found an answer# to.

I went back because I remembered,## after John Boehner, the former speaker,# was out of office for a little while,## in 2017, when the first version of# repeal and replace the ACA came up,## he was quoted at a conference saying: I have# been in Congress for 25 years.

I have never## seen one time when Congress agreed what# a health care proposal should look like.

In other words, even before the replace and# repeal failed in 2018, he was predicting it## wasn't going to work because Republicans have such# a tough time on this issue.

So that's number one.

The second is that where the divide really# is between a president, who believes that## this is a political liability coming up in the# midterms, he sees where the polls are, he sees## how much support there is for extending these# ACA subsidies, and his Republicans in Congress,## who ideologically are deeply opposed to# everything that the ACA stands for and## many of whom voted to repeal it not that long# ago when the president was in his first term.

GEOFF BENNETT: More than 60 times.

AMY WALTER: Oh, yes, the 60 times,## and then they finally got the vote to# actually repeal it in 2017 o.. GEOFF BENNETT: Right.

Right.

Yes.

TAMARA KEITH: Yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, Tam, I mean, how does# .. to Amy's point, between ideological purity,# no Obamacare subsidies, and pragmatism,## you have to do something# about these premiums spiking?

AMY WALTER: Right.

TAMARA KEITH: So.. Republican Party, or at least he's# changed the Republican electorate.

I was just talking to a political# scientist about this today.

He has## expanded the party.

He's expanded the# tent.

He's brought in a lot of voters## who are more working class, who would be more# sensitive to these spikes in health care costs.

And he has his finger on the pulse of# his base, which is not the same as the## traditional Republican Party, or the same# as the Tea Party, which wants to make the## government smaller.

And so, when you have a# big tent -- and President Trump's presidency## has sort of helped paper over this, when# you have a big tent, there are divisions.

And what you're seeing right now is, with# such a narrow Republican majority in the## House and the Senate, those tensions between# the Libertarian wing and the populist wing or## whatever you want to call it, those tensions make# it really hard to get something done.

And now you## have Marjorie Taylor Greene leaving, which is# one fewer vote for Republicans in the House.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, what does it# say, Amy, that Republicans have had## a decade to come up with some sort of free# market solution for health care coverage... and yet they#haven't been able to settle on one?

AMY WALTER: Well, the one person who was# the most successful -- Republican who was## successful in passing real health care reform# was Mitt Romney as governor of Massachusetts... GEOFF BENNETT: Right.

AMY WALTER: ... .. GEOFF BENNETT: For Obamacare.

AMY WALTER: Exactly.

And because of that, I thi.. then we use that platform because it was# something that Democrats used.

But just## sort of building on Tam's point too about# the tension within the party, there are 13## Republicans that have stated publicly, we would# like to see these ACA extensions go forward.

They all sit in vulnerable districts, districts# that are up in 2026 that either Trump narrowly## carried or Kamala Harris carried.

But most of# the people in Congress don't sit in those kinds## of districts.

But these are the people who# will determine who's in the House majority.

GEOFF BENNETT: You mentioned Marjorie# Taylor Greene.

She announced on Friday## her resignation from Congress# effective January 5.

And that## announcement came just one week after she# criticized President Trump -- or, rather,## President Trump withdrew his support# for her after she criticized him.

But what does her sudden decision to resign tell## us about the fault lines within# the MAGA era Republican Party?

TAMARA KEITH: Well, first, it tells us that# being a member of Congress just isn't that great.## And you have seen a lot of members of Congress# complain about certain -- complain any number## of things, experiencing threats to their# families, and just the general unpleasantness.

There are some ways to see this as# a victory for President Trump.

She## criticized him.

She wasn't just -- it# wasn't just the Epstein files.

It was## on the economy.

It was on Venezuela.

It# was on other foreign entanglements.

She## was becoming a critic from inside the# party.

And that was a problem for him.

And rather than sticking it out and# fighting, she said, all right, peace,## I'm out.

And so, in some ways, that's a# win for President Trump.

In other ways,## it's a sign that these fissures exist and# people are already thinking about what the## party looks like when he's no longer# the leader who sort of blocks the sun## and prevents others in the party from defining# what the Republican Party really is going forward.

GEOFF BENNETT: Could her resignation# trigger a ripple effect where you have## other far right members, MAGA-aligned# folks break away from President Trump?

AMY WALTER: So I think she was# a unique figure, in that, look,## she came into Congress and instantly went for# the shiny object and being in the spotlight.

And you could make the other case that she just# got too close to that spotlight and it singed## her and now it's over.

But you can also say# that, going back to Tam's point about what the## Trump coalition looks like now,# if you look both at polling and at## election results that have happened, the# elections that have happened since 2025,## what you see is a MAGA base, the core# Trump base, they still like him a lot.

They're going to stick with him.

It's that# periphery coalition, the younger voters,## the Latino voters, the independents.

When# you see his numbers among those voters,## those were people who they weren't ever# assigning themselves the MAGA label.## They voted for Donald Trump because they# thought he was going to do certain things,## especially on the economy, and now# they don't see those things happening.

And so he's losing favor with them.

That is the# bigger threat to the Trump agenda going forward,## meaning, what will the Trump coalition look like# in 2028?

Those are the voters who determine that.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, I mentioned the# dissolution of DOGE in the intro.

And## lucky for us we still have time to talk about it.

So, Tam, so DOGE, the Department of# Government Efficiency, is dissolving## ahead of schedule.

This organization,# agency, however you want to describe it,## they claim to have cut tens of billions of# dollars in spending.

They have provided no## verifiable accounting.

How wide# is the accountability gap here?

TAMARA KEITH: Yes, they never provided# the receipts for all of these cuts that## they claimed to make.

Many of the cuts# that they claimed to make weren't real.## Others were extremely inefficient, which# led to actually more spending, not less.

And the reality is that DOGE has# basically been dead since the summer,## since President Trump's falling out with# Elon Musk.

They have sort of repaired## that relationship now.

But DOGE was more an# idea than it ever was a practical reality.

GEOFF BENNETT: What's it say about the# feasibility of rapid-fire bureaucratic## overhaul in a federal government# that's built on bureaucracy?

AMY WALTER: Yes, I think the one thing# it was successful in doing though, Geoff,## is that it has fundamentally altered the way# that agencies work and may be working far,## far beyond just the four years of Trump's term.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, we covered# a ton of ground on this Monday.

Amy Walter, Tamara Keith, thanks, as always.

AMY WALTER: You're welcome.

TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.

GEOFF BENNETT: Since President Trump reentered the#White House, his administration has## moved to restrict rights for transgender# people, from transition-related medical## care for youth to sports participation# to identity markers on passports.

William Brangham has an update on these actions,## the legal challenges to# them, and what may come next.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: LGBTQ+ advocates# say that many of President Trump's## policies present a critical threat to# the roughly 1 percent of Americans,## that is some 2.8 million people,# who identify as transgender.

So for a closer look at some of these moves,# we are joined by Alejandra Caraballo.

She's a## transgender activist and civil rights attorney who# teaches at Harvard Law School's Cyberlaw Clinic.

Welcome to the "News Hour."

ALEJANDRA CARABALLO, Harvard Law# School: Thank you for having me.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: After Trump won the election,# you told The Harvard C.. four years would be really just a matter of# survival.

How has that survival been going?

ALEJANDRA CARABALLO: It's# been incredibly difficult.

The Trump administration has taken a# whole-of-government approach to target## the trans community, in everything from how we're# able to identify ourselves on identity documents,## to how we obtain our health care,# to even where we go to the bathroom,## and even the ability to serve in the military.

And so for the entirety of the trans community,## it really has become a matter of survival, and# that survival has been incredibly difficult.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: When you're talking to# people in the community and people who are## supporters and allies, do they share that# same sense of dread as to what's going on?

ALEJANDRA CARABALLO: Absolutely.

I think a lot of allie.. at the same time, it's difficult because there# is so much happening.

We're kind of only one## small part of everything that is happening,# between the assaults on our institutions,## the attacks on immigrants, the# open corruption in the government.

It makes it really hard to be able to focus# what is happening to the trans community,## when so much is happening all at the same time.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Back during the# election, political analysts point## to that notorious set of ads that the# president ran against Kamala Harris,## she's for they/them, he's for you, as both# being divisive and effective as an ad campaign.

And, as you know, there are polls that show that# somewhere around half of Americans approve of what## the president is doing vis-a-vis trans people.

How# do you explain that?

How does that sit with you?

ALEJANDRA CARABALLO: I think# it's incredibly troubling,## especially with the kinds of moves that has made# for the trans community to even live our lives,## to even access health care, to even access# housing, or to even work without discrimination.

But I think the Trump administration,# really, I think they're overplaying their## hand and I think a lot of the Republican# Party overlearned the lesson from 2024,## where their economic populism was able to# win over swing voters and they attributed it## to anti-trans politics, because it failed# in Virginia and it failed in New Jersey.

Winsome Earle-Sears spent over# 50 percent of her ads been,## according to NOTUS, on anti-trans ads,# and she lost by, I think almost... WILLIAM BRANGHAM: This was in the governor's race.

ALEJANDRA CARABALLO: Yes, by over 15# perc.. extremely heinous anti-trans ads.

And it# just failed to materialize as any sort## of impact on electoral politics,# because, at the end of the day,## people want to hear about things that# actually affect their day-to-day lives,## and trans people, it just doesn't register# for them, for better or for worse.

When it comes to our issues in terms of like our# access to health care and all those other things,## it makes it very hard for us to get# those policies.

But at the same time,## on the negative side, it doesn't have# much saliency with the electorate.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The Supreme Court,# as you know, is about to take up a## case next year about the participation# of transgender athletes in sports.

Again,## over half of Americans believe that transgender# athletes should not be playing in sports.

What do you think is at stake# in that particular case?

ALEJANDRA CARABALLO: Yes, I# mean, there's, on its face,## what's at stake in the case, which is a# middle school girl just wanting to play## sports with her friends.

And# let's not lose sight of that.

And there had always been these commonsense# compromises, that you had to be on hormones## for your two years.

You can't just show up# and just say, I'm a girl and play on the## sports teams.

That's not how it worked.

There had# been these compromises within the sports teams,## within local school districts to# figure out how to make this work.

And this instead is saying that the# government's coming in and dictating## who can and can't play sports.

But it goes beyond# that, because Title IX, which is at stake here,## and as well as the Equal Protection Clause,# really defines what counts as discrimination## writ large in all the institutions of learning# from local kindergartens to universities.

And so that could determine potentially how# discrimination on the basis of sex impacts## trans people across the country.# We could see, depending on how this## decision comes down and how it comes out# at oral argument and how it's written,## basically an endorsement of bathroom bans by the# Supreme Court, facilities bans, a lack of any## sort of protections within discrimination law# for trans people in the context of education.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I want to ask you one# thing.

You have faced your own share of## criticism for some of the things# you have written on social media.

Where do you see the boundaries in# terms of how to have this debate,## especially as it pertains to people# who are near and dear to you?

ALEJANDRA CARABALLO: I think about this a lot in# terms of the incentives of social media and how## it can incentivize a certain style of engagement.

But I think, in general, one of the things# I have always tried to say and repeat,## the quote is, be brutal to systems,## kind to people.

And I think that's one# of the things that tries to guide me is,## we need to hold people to account and hold systems# to account, but try to be kinder to people.

And I certainly have tried to grow myself in# this respect, and I know I have not always## been perfect, but I think that's just an# unfortunate side effect of social media.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, that is# Alejandra Caraballo from Harvard Law School.

Thank you so much for being here.

ALEJANDRA CARABALLO: Thanks for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ:## A new documentary looks at how gun violence# has led to school lockdown drills becoming## a universal part of childhood in America.

That# sparked the creation and explosive growth of an## entire industry of active shooter preparedness# products now worth an estimated $3 billion.

MAN: Lockdown 1 is by far our most# popular.

It works on any door.

MAN: Sirens and strobes throughout# the organization are now initiated.

MAN: It can move.

It has handles, and you# literally could move with the table if so desired.

MAN: Right after Sandy Hook happened,# teachers and schools started calling us.

MAN: When Sandy Hook happened and we# realized that the children were at risk,## we said we have got this great technology.

MAN: And now we're in 4,000# schools across the country.

AMNA NAWAZ: The documentary called "Thoughts# & Prayers" is available to stream now on HBO## Max.

I recently spoke with the filmmaking team# behind it, Zackary Canepari and Jessica Dimmock.

Zack and Jessica, welcome to the# "News Hour."

Thanks for joining us.

JESSICA DIMMOCK, Co-Director,# "Thoughts & Prayers": Thank you.

ZACKARY CANEPARI.. AMNA NAWAZ: So I wanted to get into the# story behind.. But, Zack, kick us off here and just# tell us a little bit more about some## of those pitches we just heard, some# of the products we just heard about,## the fact that this is a whole industry# most people don't even know about## that's cropped up in recent years.

What# more should we understand about that?

ZACKARY CANEPARI: Yes, and the film documents# sort of the various different training programs## and products and cultural effects of all these# things across America due to gun violence.

And the products, the scene that you guys# just watched was from the National School## Safety Conference, which is a very# typical sort of American conference,## where they go to the hotel, they have# got the lazy river, they have got## the pool party, and then they have vendors.

And# those vendors are pitching products to schools and## other businesses looking for ways to help# prevent or stop or slow mass shootings.

Prevent is probably not the right word, because# it's more like slowing mass shootings down.## But those products are all on the marketplace# trying to find homes in schools across America.

AMNA NAWAZ: I mean, in the# world of products that you saw,## did anything surprise you that this thing exists?

JESSICA DIMMOCK: I think what# was most surprising was, like,## the calm and collected manner with which people# would kind of assume that any of this would work.

There's one thing that's a shield that kind# of opens up and theoretically could stop an## AR-15 bullet.

And, theoretically,# the demonstrator is talking about## how a kid aged 10 could run his fellow# classmates out to safety.

And, like,## when you really play that out in your# mind, you're like, wait, wait, wait.

OK.

So AR-15 bullets are flying at this shield# and this kid is supposed to be just ramming## through them?

Like, when you really stop and# think about the scenarios and what it would## actually take for any of this stuff to really be# effective, I think that's what's so surprising.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Jessica, I mean,# the industry is there because,## as you report in the film, 95 percent of# American schools now run lockdown drills.## There have been some 236 school shootings# in the last seven years where at least## one person was killed or injured.# That's according to Education Week.

Take us behind the film for a moment and tell us## about what made you want to make# this film in the first place.

JESSICA DIMMOCK: Yes.

So Zack and I have a child.

And like many American#parents, when she was approaching school age,## we started to think about the inevitability# of drills and started to think about what## it actually would be like to look at these.# And we went down the wormhole that I think a## lot of parents do, which is like, what's# the plan?

How is she going to stay safe?

And then once we started digging into that,# we realized that there was this whole kind of## world of safety and preparedness, which in some# ways we are looking at with some cynicism, but## ultimately the industry is not necessarily# the problem.

The industry exists because## there's a lack of meaningful gun reform# and people are trying to solve a problem.

We have some doubts that this is the# actual way to solve this problem,## but we understand in some# ways why the industry exists.

AMNA NAWAZ: I mean, I will share, I remember when# my oldest was just 4 years old and she came home## to talk about her first drill in pre-K,# when they told her, this is what happens## if an animal gets into the school, you have to# hide and be quiet and it just broke my heart.

Most parents don't get to see# the drills that these kids are## going through across the country.

Zack,# you witnessed these.

You saw a lot of## them firsthand.

Take us inside.# What is that like for the kids?

ZACKARY CANEPARI: I think it's very --# it's unique because it simultaneously## is the darkest thing that we can# imagine and also pretty mundane.

The kids are -- especially as they# get older.

They have been doing them## for years.

For the young kids, it's got# this spooky quality, but the kids don't## totally even really understand what# it is that they're practicing for.

With the older kids, they have been# doing this twice a year for their## entire school career.

And they have gotten to# the point like in high school at this point,## I think a lot of schools recommend that the# kids actually pick up something to use as## a improvised weapon.

It's really# just to stand there and hold it.

But the idea that this is even in the psyche# of these kids over years and years, I think,## is really what we're pointing at.

These# individual drills, they don't always## look like much.

They're pretty short.

But I# think the collective experience over many,## many years, and even just, again, just# talking about it and thinking about it,## hearing about other shootings, I# think that's what's the most damaging.

But, yes, the drills are just now# part of our ritual, American ritual.

AMNA NAWAZ: I mean, some of the most powerful## moments in the documentary are when# we hear from these kids dire.. I want to play for folks just# one of the interviews you did## with a student named Julie.

Take a listen.

JULIE, Middle School Student:# I really want to be a teacher,## elementary schoolteacher.

I really like# little kids, and I like working with them.## I like letting them express themselves and# teaching them to help them succeed in life.

But, again, that will be frustrating because# of school shootings.

I have to do a bunch of## trainings for them, get ready.

And especially# if I'm a teacher and one of the kids get hurt,## I will be very guilty, even if it's# not my fault.

It would just be like,## I could have done this to protect them.# And I would really -- I would feel guilty.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jessica, tell us about what else you# heard from the other kids when they would talk## about these drills and also just the possibility# of something happening in their schools.

JESSICA DIMMOCK: Yes, well, a couple of# things that the kids are so clear on,## which was really eye-opening for us as# people that didn't grow up doing this,## one, they're worried about it all the time.# They're in rooms and they're always kind of## thinking about where the exit is.# Could I jump out of that window?

Is## this building high enough for me to survive# something like that?

Can I run out the door?

So that kind of constant mental noise is# something that they -- is pretty universal.## They talk about it a lot.

They also talk# about close calls.

While shootings at schools## themselves are rather rare, they absolutely# -- as all Americans know, they do happen.

And the amount of kind of close# calls that these kids are around,## someone had a kill list, someone made a threat# on social media, a janitor at school had a plan,## this kind of proximity to the# violence was also really striking.

And I'd say the third thing that# really blew us away is that the## kids are clear about why this goes on.# They're very clear about that this is## a problem about guns and that this# is a uniquely American phenomenon.

AMNA NAWAZ: Zack, what about the impact# on teachers?

What did you hear from them?

ZACKARY CANEPARI: Well, I think, for the# teachers, teachers are on the front lines## of so many American culture wars.

It was masks# and book bands and obviously this as well.

And so what I found so striking was the teacher# in our film saying that there's been a huge## drop-off with teachers.

And the ones that are# in this program, the program in the film is in## Utah where they train teachers beyond just active# shooter preparedness.

They train them to use guns.

And the ones that are in this program for her# were the ones that were left, being that this## is what we're willing to do to protect our# kids and continue to educate kids.

I mean,## what a crazy -- that all they're trying to# do is educate, be teachers and there just not## totally -- there's no way that they're prepared# for -- this kind of ask is just above and beyond.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jessica, in all the conversations# with students and teachers and others,## is there consensus on what# they want to see changed,## on what they want public officials or leaders# to do or to act to stop this from happening?

Or## is there a resignation that this is# just part of their normal life now?

JESSICA DIMMOCK: I mean, I think that there# is a resignation that has deeply set in,## which is partially it has to do with why we# made this film and the way that we approach it.

I think, when we think about drills, what's# important for everyone to understand,## including your listeners, is that all of the# things that we show in our film, which are very## commonplace in America, are all predicated on the# idea that this violence cannot be stopped or that## this violence is just coming and what we need to# do, instead of prevent it, is to practice for it.

And so I think what we really want# is to for people to feel enraged## that -- and hopeful that we don't# need to live this and that there## is a different way to live that's# free from this kind of violence.

AMNA NAWAZ: The film is called "Thoughts# & Prayers."

It's streaming now on HBO Max.

Filmmakers Zackary Canepari and Jessica Dimmock,## thank you so much for making the# time to speak with us about it.

JESSICA DIMMOCK: Thank you.

ZACKARY CANEPARI: Of course.

Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Finally tonight: Reggae legend#Jimmy Cliff has died.

His family## says the cause was complications# following a seizure and pneumonia.

A native son of Jamaica, a two-time Grammy winner# and a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,## Cliff carried his country's music from# the streets of Kingston to audiences## around the world, turning# reggae into a global sound.

He was considered the first international star# of reggae and, for a time, Jimmy Cliff was the## genre's greatest ambassador.

He personified# the music of Jamaica, building a career## that spanned nearly seven decades and a# fan base that reached across the world.

Cliff rose to prominence in the early 1960s,# paving the way for another giant of the genre,## Bob Marley, just as Jamaica was gaining# its independents from Britain.

He said his## music and the early sounds of reggae itself# were changing right along with his country.

JIMMY CLIFF, Musician: Music# doesn't really stay the same.## I mean.

Especially popular music# keeps changing.

So reggae music,## we know that is coming from, like you say,# what was called ska, then to rocksteady,## which was the bridge to reggae.

And then, when it# became known as reggae, that name kind of stuck.

GEOFF BENNETT: He sang in a lilting tenor voice# and performed with a charismatic upbeat persona,## outward joy on stage that so often belied the# seriousness and social consciousness of his music.

JIMMY CLIFF: The people# don't want another Vietnam!

GEOFF BENNETT: Cliff's songs# delved into politics and activism,## like his anti-war anthem "Vietnam."

He# said music could give people purpose.

JIMMY CLIFF: Music can highlight# awareness.

And from that awareness,## people can take some kind of# action to better the situation.

I think that's the role music has# played through the ages.

And I think## it's the role that it is playing now.

And# I think that is the role that it can play.

You want to go and beg work for $10 a week# for the rest of my life?

I would rather die.

GEOFF BENNETT: A gifted actor, as well as# musician, Cliff starred in the 1972 crime## drama "The Harder They Come," a groundbreaking# Jamaican film.

He won acclaim for his lead role## as Ivan Martin, an aspiring reggae musician# turned criminal.

He also wrote much of the## film's soundtrack, which helped to bring reggae# to a wider audience, especially in the U.S.

After a period when his star had noticeably# dimmed, he reemerged, perhaps most memorably## with his unmistakable modern take on Johnny# Nash's "I Can See Clearly Now," recorded for## the soundtrack of "Cool Runnings," the 1993 hit# film about the Jamaican Olympic bobsled team.

Nominated for seven Grammys, he# won twice for best reggae album.## In 2003, Cliff received Jamaica's Order# of Merit, the country's highest honor## for those in the arts and sciences.

And, in# 2010, he was inducted into the Rock and Hall## of Fame.

One of reggae music's greatest# pioneers, Jimmy Cliff, was 81 years old.

AMNA NAWAZ: A true trailblazer.

He will be missed.

Well, join us back here tomorrow night for# the latest in our series Rethinking College## and how artificial intelligence# is disrupting higher education.

And that is the "News Hour"# for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News..